2bobs - With David C. Baker And Blair Enns

David finds the courage to address a topic he’s been putting off for awhile, as he is seeing more agency principals struggling to maintain both healthy and productive work environments by leading the ongoing process of resolving tensions within their teams.   LINKS "Adapting to a Modern Workforce" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com

Instead of beginning the relationship with a prospective client by presenting a deck on why your agency is so amazing and why you should be invited to pitch, Blair encourages us to have the “Probative Conversation” from his Four Conversations sales model.   LINKS "There Is No Credentials Meeting" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise" 2Bobs episode The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise book by Blair Enns

When it comes to positioning, David is still seeing creative firms failing to answer three essential questions in the proper sequence: category, specialization, and then secondary differentiators (or qualifying characteristics).

Blair sees high price anchors everywhere—from buying a suit to ordering a burger. So what factors should creative firms keep in mind as they use anchoring in selling their service options? And when is the best time to present the anchor option within the sales conversation?   Links “Anchor High” by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com

Following up on the recent episode on whether you should be considering that offer to sell your firm, David provides four questions to get answered, two documents to sign, and a short list of materials that can help you take the lead in early conversations with a buyer.   LINKS ”Should You Entertain That Acquisition Offer?”

The more unexpected the metaphor, the more information it carries. Blair has four less-obvious metaphors to give you access to entire playbooks in just four words when selling your expertise.   LINKS "The Power of a Metaphor" written by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com

Ignoring any unexpected offers to buy your business that might come your way is not in your best interest. But neither is dating all opportunities in desperation. David has four things principals should consider, whether or not you are actively looking to sell your firm.   Links “Should You Entertain That Offer?” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com 2Bobs London Meet-up on Thursday 8 May, 2025 at 2pm

Your clients are far more likely to talk to each other when you have vertical positioning. Blair has observed both good and bad things arising from this.   Links “How to Ask for Referrals” 2Bobs episode

As we are hearing about more firms that are closing during these challenging times, David offers some guidance to help cut through the confusion when our worst fears in our business become reality.   Links "Facing an Existential Crisis" article by David for punctuation.com Rory Sutherland's LinkedIn post David's LinkedIn post

As Blair continues to encourage expert practice owners to price the client and not the service, he and David discuss the pros and cons of four levels of pricing authority they should be thinking about within their firm, instead of just assuming pricing responsibility automatically defaults to a specific role or job title. Links “Who Should Set Prices In Your Firm?” written by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com

David thinks principals should build their firms as if they were going to sell it while Blair’s advice is to run it as if you’ll never sell it. Being aware of options as your firm matures can give you the leverage you might need in negotiations.   Links “Ten Reasons Firms Are Bought” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com

Through the process of writing his latest book, Blair's thinking has evolved on whether or not firms should resist the urge to productize their services as they work to creatively meet the unique needs of each client.

In Blair's experience, the most common reason a lead generation plan doesn’t get executed is it doesn’t recognize and leverage the strengths or motivations of the individuals executing.   LINKS "The Best Lead Generation Plan" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation" 2Bobs episode

David describes the differences in what kind of people principals should hire during the early stage of their creative firm’s development when it’s all about “what we can afford,” the middle stage when it’s about “what we need,” and then the later days of an agency when it’s about “what we can learn.”   LINKS “How Your Hiring Strategies Change” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com “The Problem of Standards” by David Maister

Blair borrows a concept from finance and fitness to help creative agencies find the balance between low risk and high risk pricing strategies.

Blair interviews David about his new book, Selling Your Professional Services Firm: A Primer.   LINKS Buy a copy of David's new book from him directly. Buy David's new book and audiobook on Amazon.

Blair interviews David on his recent article about the idea that expertise does involve supplying answers, eventually, but mainly expertise is about asking the right questions, first, and then offering a few answers after the truth surfaces.   Links “Expertise Is Mainly About Asking Great Questions” by David C. Baker on Punctuation.com

Blair shares how to determine whether or not we are the advantaged player the “polite battle for control” within the game of sales, and how we can get the odds of winning the sale to be more in our favor.   Links “Assume an Advantaged Player” article by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com

David interviews Blair about his new book, which lays out his proven framework B2B service providers can use to increase closing ratios and average proposal values.   Links Order The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise by Blair Enns

Blair and David reminisce about their podcasting journey since Blair first pitched the 2Bobs idea to David back in 2016, sharing what they've learned along the way, and what they might like to try with the podcast in the future.