Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Three things generate a sense of meaning IN life; Coherence - can you make sense of the world? Purpose - do you feel a sense of purpose with what you do? And Significance - does your life matter? Having meaning in your life is correlated with a sense of self certainty. Knowing who you are and having a sense of self, gives you structure and a stable way of seeing the world.   But how do you answer the question “who am I?” Our guest, Dr Brian Lowery PhD says the answer isn’t as individualistic as we may have been led to believe. Not only do those around us; our friends, co-workers and parents contribute to who we are, Brian claims they actually create who we are. Putting it bluntly, there is no way of separating “you” from your relationships.   We’ve waited a long time to talk to Brian, who is the Walter Kenneth Kilpatrick Professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. He is a social psychologist by training, but Brian’s work is by no means traditional in that field. He st

Incentives can improve motivation. But what actually happens when the incentive is removed? An influential body of research previously suggested that extrinsic rewards have a negative impact on intrinsic motivation. However, more recent studies show this not to be the case over the long term. Our guest, Dr Indranil Goswami PhD, talks us through the longer term effects of temporary incentives and the implications for motivating behavior change. Indranil is an Assistant Professor of Marketing at the University at Buffalo.  The research that we focus on in this episode is the paper he co-wrote with Dr Oleg Urminsky PhD, called  “The Dynamic Effect of Incentives on Post-Reward Task Engagement”. While there may be a dose of confirmation bias with this conversation, Kurt and Tim are excited to hear more about Indranil’s research which backs up what they have been telling companies for years: “Incentives are useful for improving people's behavior, engagement and performance.” Managers, academics and even parents h

Groove Track | Why can’t you find a cab in the rain?  We take a deep dive exploring the 1997 study “LABOR SUPPLY OF NEW YORK CITY CAB DRIVERS: ONE DAY AT A TIME,” by  Colin Camerer, Linda Babcock, George Loewenstein, and Richard Thaler.   This paper shifts through piles of data to look at how NY city cab drivers behaved - and what they found was an economic anomaly - the cab drivers did not behave as classical economists predicted.  The data showed that the drivers worked shorter hours on days when they earned faster (e.g., when it's raining) which goes against what economists would have predicted (i.e., that they maximize those opportunities).     Kurt and Tim run through how the study came to be, what they measured, and the implications of the paper's findings.  This is a quick and fun dive into one of behavioral science classic studies.   Find out more about this paper in our blog post

Love connects us to things in a deep way. But when we say we love our car, or we love our favorite beach, or we love our children, the love we express for each of those things is very different. So can we really love things as much as we love people?  Our guest is Dr. Aaron Ahuvia, the world’s leading expert on brand love, a topic he pioneered and has worked on since 1990. He is a Professor of Marketing at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor’s Ross School of Business. Among the many books and papers he has authored, our favorite is the paper titled “Dr. Seuss, Felicitator”. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the term “felicitator,” it is someone who brings happiness to others.  With Aaron, we discuss the very interesting and important topic of loving the things in our lives, why we love them, and how that love can change over time. This is especially true with brands and products and sporting teams and neighborhoods. One of the big takeaways from our conversation with Aaron is just to let go of this no

Disembarking people from a plane, row by row during the height of COVID, but then cramming all the passengers into a bus to the terminal…where is the common sense in that? Best selling author Martin Lindstrom laments that we are drowning in bureaucracy and that technology is contributing to the death of common sense in society. Founder and chairman of Lindstrom Company, Martin Lindstrom is also the best selling author of seven New York Times best-selling books. We talk with Martin about his most recent book, “The Ministry Of Common Sense: How to Eliminate Bureaucratic Red Tape, Bad Excuses, and Corporate BS”. Our conversation covers a lot of ground in a short time, including how John F. Kennedy was a trendsetter for the way businessmen dress today, why Martin lives without a phone, as well as how to cultivate more human-to-human connections. And since no conversation on Behavioral Grooves would be complete without a chit-chat about music, we find out what artists Martin would choose to take with him to a dese

When making big decisions, people often go with what feels right - who we marry, where we live, what career we pursue. We base these decisions on our gut instinct. But what if our gut is biased, misinformed or quite simply wrong?  Economist, former Google scientist, New York Times bestselling author and friend of the show Seth Stephens-Davidowitz has mined through thousands of data sets to prove that we are, in fact, frequently making ill-informed decisions when we only trust our gut. And we are delighted to be talking to Seth again about his fantastic new book, Don't Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life. From the data, Seth has uncovered what activities make us most happy, which isn’t always the most comfortable activity. “If you're on the fence, between walking with friends, and lying on the couch watching Netflix…go on that walk…it's been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt that that's the more likely path to happiness.”  But surprisingly there is one aspect of life that data can

Over the last 50 years, little has changed for the pharmaceutical management of mental illness. This is troublesome, but not unsolvable, according to The New York Times writer and author, Daniel Bergner. We talked with him about his most recent book, The Mind and the Moon: My Brother’s Story, the Science of Our Brains, and the Search for Our Psyches, and some of the key themes he discovered along his personal journey with a mentally challenged family member and other people he came to know well. We discussed the shortcomings of our current mental healthcare systems and processes, the benefits of non-traditional mental health therapies, the ancient myth about the Turkey Prince, and how we might be able to get immediate relief by reframing the conversation about pain management and pain suppression. The book features stories about his brother and a few other people that are told in remarkable detail over a long period of time. The gripping and beautifully-told narrative will open your eyes to some of the challe

Customer feedback lacks two fundamental pieces of information: context and behavior. Traditional methods of insight, like the Net Promoter Score (NPS) and customer feedback surveys have their limitations. Andrea Belk Olson, our guest on this episode, challenges organizations to adopt a different approach to customer behavior by delving into the WHY and the WHAT, then coming up with a WOW hypothesis - a 3 step process called the 3W Ideation.   Author of the new book, “What to Ask: How to Learn What Customers Need but Don't Tell You”: https://amzn.to/3yvooRF, Andrea Belk Olson is the CEO of applied behavioral science consulting firm Pragmadik, and head of the University of Iowa JPEC startup incubator. She delivers a unique, cognitive method for discovering hidden customer needs, converting them quickly into differentiators, and avoiding the pitfalls of traditional research.   By using behavioral insights in organizations, Andrea believes that companies can become more customer focused. And when everyone in an o

Utilizing the power of identity by proudly declaring yourself as indistractable can be a persuasive step in becoming the kind of person we want to be. By changing the language we use to describe ourselves, we can actually influence our own behavior.    This is just one of the techniques that our popular guest, Nir Eyal describes in his new book, “Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life”. Nir is the international bestselling author of “Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products”, a behavioral design expert, and host of the wonderful podcast “Nir and Far”.    In a world full of demands on our attention, we may think that getting distracted is a recent phenomenon and blame our technology use. But in this episode, Nir describes how getting distracted is simply part of our human nature, something we’ve been plagued with for centuries. Listen to our fascinating interview with Nir to learn how to be intentional with our tasks, what planning our time should look like and why leaving time f

Mitt Romney once mistakenly quipped that people were either "makers or takers" echoing a common sentiment among US politicians that by working we provide society with value and are rewarded with a sense of dignity. But what if we considered that each of us had dignity that wasn't engulfed in our work identity? Would we be less susceptible to burnout if we accepted ourselves as enough as we are, regardless of our job status?    Having come through a dark period of burnout himself, Jonathan Malesic firmly believes that we all have dignity. Period. He has written a timely book called The End of Burnout: Why work drains us and how to build better lives. We are delighted that Jon has come to talk to Behavioral Grooves Podcast about what leads to burnout and how to prevent it.   Jon delves into how the Protestant work ethic can contribute to burnout. And echoes Jennifer Moss’ sentiments from last week's episode that burnout is an issue with corporate culture, not an individual problem.   And to Tim's delight, Jon p

We’ve been programmed to treat burnout as a self-care issue, as if we’re just one yoga session or a relaxation app away from fixing the problem. Jennifer Moss, however, describes the solution to burnout as an organizational issue, not an individual hurdle. Creating a workplace culture where leaders model healthy work behavior, engage with empathy and cater for employees' individual needs can foster an environment that helps prevent burnout before it starts.  "Employees can’t be what they can’t see."  We love Jen’s analogy of the dusty ping pong table to illustrate the perks that some businesses offer but then don’t back-up with a work culture that encourages 20 minute breaks throughout the day. What your left with is a business that sounds like a great place to work, but in reality, there’s a dusty ping pong table in the basement that never gets used. Organizations need to adapt. Jennifer Moss is a Harvard Business Review contributor and nationally syndicated radio columnist. She was on the Global Happiness

We all know someone who believes in conspiracy theories and we wish we could change their mind. It is possible. There are techniques that can work to transform how people think. But what we love about our conversation with David McRaney is that he adds in a Step 0 to the process and asks “why do you want to change their mind?”    Are you open to changing your own mind? If you have any interest in changing someone else’s mind, you should be open to changing your own mind too. To effectively collaborate with others and compassionately explore differences in opinion, we need to accept that our minds too can be changed.   We are delighted to welcome our esteemed guest David McRaney to this, our 300th episode of Behavioral Grooves Podcast! David takes a fascinating dive into why exactly we hold our beliefs, the science behind each of us seeing the world through slightly different lenses, and the stark reality that truth is tribal. While this is a long episode of Behavioral Grooves, you may just find yourself wanti

What if we were so optimistic, nothing ever felt like an obstacle, only an opportunity? As an unapologetic optimist, Patreon page. If donating isn’t an option for you, don’t worry, you can write us a podcast review which will help promote our show to other listeners. Thank you. Topics (4:07) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:06) Should we rewrite the American constitution? (11:17) Paul is affected by SIPO. What is it? (15:14) Going from hating himself to loving himself. (19:32) How can we transform our neuroplasticity? (25:24) Love all, serve all. (27:58) Four global initiatives Paul is involved in. (29:52) How climate transformation is possible. (36:49) Paul’s travel to 62 countries and how it's influenced his musical taste. (43:18) An optimistic Grooving session with Kurt and Tim. © 2022  Behavioral Grooves   Links Dr. Paul Zeitz: www.drpaulzeitz.org   Opinion Science Podcast: https://opinionsciencepodcast.com/  Alicia Keys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Keys  Desmond Tutu: https://en.wikipedi

Many of us struggle with the demands of parenting. Our response to feeling overwhelmed can be to try and control our kids’ behavior. But guest Sue Donnellan challenges us to lessen our parenting load by giving our children more control, more responsibility and ultimately more respect. While this might go against our instincts, when we take ownership of our own behavior, rather than controlling our kids', we will become happier parents with children able to learn from their mistakes.   Sue Donnellan is the recent author of “Secrets to Parenting Without Giving a F^ck: The Non-Conformist Playbook to Raising Happy Kids Without Public Meltdowns, Power Struggles, & Punishments”. With the surprise arrival of her triplets, Sue had suddenly found herself parenting 4 young kids while also running her own business. She walks us through the moment that radically changed her parenting style, and how she transformed herself into a "reformed yeller". Over the years, Sue's journey of discovery has turned her into a paren

World-class pediatric surgeon, social scientist, and best-selling author Dr Dana Suskind MD talks about the Three T's (tune in, talk more and take turns) that parents can do to nurture their children’s brain development and the key ways that society needs to change to invest in the next generation. Dana is the founder and co-director of the TMW Center for Early Learning & Public Health, and Professor of Surgery and Pediatrics at the University of Chicago. She is also the director of the Pediatric Cochlear Implant Program, and is recognized as a national thought leader in early language development. Her research is dedicated to optimizing foundational brain development and preventing early cognitive disparities and their lifelong impact. Honestly, when she talks about raising kids…we need to listen. Most recently, Dana has released a fantastic new book detailing the powerful blueprint that society should be taking to meet the developmental needs of all children. We talk more with Dana about why she wrote P

Lots of us have good ideas, some even back their ideas up with successful research. So why do these good ideas fail to scale into great, big ideas? John A. List shares the personal example of his highly successful kindergarten reform in South Side Chicago which then didn’t scale across the nation. His intrigue into this case led him to pen a phenomenal new book about scalability, “The Voltage Effect”.   John A. List, is a Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago as well as recently becoming the first ever Chief Economist at Walmart. Our conversation with John touches on the ambition he has to change the world for the better in this new role at Walmart. But the primary drive for our chat was to discuss his great new book “The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale”. Listen in to learn about the concept of scalability and why it is so hard to go from, “the petri dish’ (as he puts it) to successful broad scale programs.    As is often the case, we round off our episode with

Innovation doesn’t always require inventing new solutions to problems; chances are that evolution has already solved the issue with a unique design. This simple notion of looking to the natural world for design inspiration is called biomimicry. Guest, Sam Tatam uses biomimicry in his creative application of behavioral science.   Friend of the show, Sam Tatam is the author of a fantastic new book called Evolutionary Ideas: Unlocking ancient innovation to solve tomorrow’s challenges. Sam is the Global Principal and Head of Behavioural Science at Ogilvy Growth & Innovation. From New York to Nairobi, Sam has led behavior change projects across virtually every category and continent. Today, he leads a global team of talented psychologists and behavioral economists to develop interventions and shape the communications of some of the world’s most influential brands and organizations.   Listen in to our conversation with Sam to learn about biomimicry, The Theory of Inventive Problem Solving (TRIZ) and the Goal Gr

A goal is a stepping stone on the way to a higher achievement, not an end point. By reframing our expectations, we can transform our mindset into an incredibly powerful psychological tool.   Our guest on this episode is Paul Szyarto who has overcome some heartbreaking personal adversity to become an incredibly successful entrepreneur.   Paul speaks with us in detail about the blind spots entrepreneurs experience and why many organizations fail because they don’t hire the right people with the right talent. And he reminds us that the most challenging thing to do in times of chaos is to focus on something meaningful, something beyond the current chaos of that current challenge.   © 2022 Behavioral Grooves   Topics  (2:50) Welcome and speed round questions. (5:11) Goals are not end points, they are stepping stones to a higher achievement. (8:47) The psychology of human capital. (12:16) Why most businesses fail.  (13:31) Paul’s secret tips for entrepreneurs.  (16:23) What is the Never Broken mindset? (19:51) The

Women are more likely to volunteer for a non-promotable task at work, than men. But why do women volunteer themselves more? What repercussions does this have on women and on the organization? And how can workplaces fix this inequity?   Non promotable tasks (NPTs) are the pieces of work that are good for the organization, but not so good for the individual. It’s the request from your boss to organize the holiday party, or the task of ordering sandwiches for the team lunch, or the mission of being on the review committee. And the problem, says Linda and her co-authors, is that women are doing the vast majority of these non-promotable tasks for no reason other than people expect them to.   Linda Babcock is a longtime friend of the show, having first appeared on Behavioral Grooves Podcast back in April 2019 to talk about promoting the careers of women in the workplace. Since then, Linda has co-authored a fantastic new book advocating further for women in the workplace; “The No Club: Putting a Stop to Women's Dead

The culture we live in has an invisible influence over our individual and collective behaviors. The tendency towards openness or order in a society is expressed by Michele Gelfand, as the looseness or tightness of a culture. How loose or tight a country is can be correlated to the amount of threat the nation has faced in the past, and in turn, can indicate how its people will respond to a new threat, such as a global pandemic.   Michele Gelfand is Professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and Professor of Psychology by Courtesy at Stanford University. She wrote her book “Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: Tight and Loose Cultures and the Secret Signals That Direct Our Lives” in the era before COVID. Despite that she astutely addressed how tight and loose nations would respond to the threat of a global pandemic. We were honored to have the time to chat more with Michele about this topic and many others in this episode.    Topics (5:49) Welcome and speed round questions. (6:27) H