Behavioral Grooves Podcast

GAABS is an organization that was recently founded to act as an accrediting body for applied behavioral scientists. GAABS is The Global Association of Applied Behavioral Scientists and is open for membership for those who demonstrate their ability to ethically apply behavioral science to their work. In this episode, we spoke with co-founding members Nuala Walsh and Steve Martin. Nuala is a contributor to Harvard Business Review and is the founder of MindEquity – a behavioral science consultancy based in Dublin. And Steve Martin is the co-author, with Robert Cialdini and Noah Goldstein, of Yes! 50 secrets from the Science of Persuasion, which has sold more than a million copies and been translated into 27 languages. Nuala is a repeat guest that was featured in episode 203 about whistleblowers and fake memories, and Steve was featured in episode 110 with his co-author, Joe Marks. Together, they wrote “Messengers: Who We Listen To, Who We Don’t, and Why.” In our conversation, we discussed what GAABS is and what

Dessa is a singer, rapper, writer, speaker, science and philosophy connoisseur, podcast host, and ice cream flavor inventor. (Her flavor is Dessa’s Existential Crunch which consists of crème fraîche, brown sugar ice cream, Jameson Irish Whiskey, Disaronno Amaretto Liqueur, and a cashew and praline pecan brittle crunch). Dessa has made a career of bucking genres and defying expectations — her résumé as a musician includes being part of the Doomtree collective, a solo artist with performances at Lollapalooza and Glastonbury, co-composer of pieces for 100-voice choir, performances with the Minnesota Orchestra, and top-200 entries on the Billboard charts. She also contributed to the #1 album The Hamilton Mixtape. As a writer, she published a memoir-in-essays called My Own Devices which was released in 2018 in addition to two literary collections along with many articles in journals such as The New York Times and National Geographic Traveler. And now she is the host of a new podcast that explores “why we do the th

Can you design an experience for someone else? Jonathan Mann, the Vice President of User Experience at Renaissance Learning says, “Umm, not really.” Prior to joining Renaissance, Jonathan led user experience teams at Target Corporation and PayPal. And as a practitioner, he’s always valued good research to help him, and his teams, deliver better work. Our discussion centered around the question, “is it possible to design an experience?” Jonathan’s research discovered that “an experience” is more than just what we think of as the element that happens in the moment we consider it an experience. Jonathan reminded us that the totality of “an experience” combines three key elements: the anticipation of the experience, the experience itself, and the memory of the experience. A vacation is a great example of this: we plan and anticipate lots of experiences before we arrive at our destination. Then we are flooded with experiences in the moment, and afterward, we have photos to remind us and memories to interpret our e

Bertram Malle, PhD teaches social cognitive science and social psychology at Brown University, he’s the author of dozens of articles and has focused his recent work on how humans feel about robots, and researches how the etiquette and facial abilities of robots impact how we perceive them. His research indicates that the more human-looking a robot is – especially in its “face” – the more humans are likely to attribute emotions or moral codes to them. Bertram’s work reminds us that the context we experience robots in influences the relationships we build. Maybe more importantly, Bertram reminded us that robots must be designed to exist in very specific contexts. The appearance and communication abilities of a robot that checks us into a doctor’s office needs to be very different from the robots we use to assist us with making an airline reservation. While that may be intuitive on one level, it highlights the remarkable complexity required in the design and manufacturing of these robots. Each one needs to be bu

Logan Ury studied psychology at Harvard, was a TED Fellow, then became a behavioral scientist at Google, where she ran Google’s behavioral science team – which we now know as The Irrational Lab. She became a dating coach and is currently the Director of Relationship Science at the dating app Hinge, where she leads a research team dedicated to helping people find love. Her work has appeared in The New York Times and The Atlantic, among a variety of media outlets, including HBO and the BBC. And you should note that she’s a featured speaker at SXSW 2021. Aside from those cool things, we wanted to talk to her because she is the author of How To Not Die Alone. In our conversation with Logan, we talked about the challenges people face in getting prepared for dating, making the most of their dating experiences, and maintaining great relationships once they’ve landed in one. She shared her insights into how to overcome some of the common hurdles and to make the most out of each phase of the dating life. We had an int

Shellye Archambeau is the author of “Unapologetically Ambitious: Take Risks, Break Barriers, and Create Success on Your Own Terms.” It’s part memoir, part inspiration, and career guidebook. While Shellye argues it’s for everyone, we reckon it’s really best suited for the most ambitious among us. In the book, Shellye shares how she went from being the only black girl in her high school to being the CEO of a Silicon Valley tech firm, MetricStream. And it’s an amazing tale of an amazing woman. In our conversation with Shellye, she talked with us about the challenges she faced growing up. But what was more interesting to us was talking with her about the way she makes decisions. She has this ability to see how things fit – or don’t fit – into her personal and business goals. And then she acts on them with amazing conviction. She is one remarkable person. We talked about how she has a strong inclination to set lofty goals – that we call BHAGS (big, hairy, audacious goals) – that never changes over the course of he

Nuala Walsh is a strategic adviser with MindEquity, working with organizations to create reputation, commercial and cultural change. She is a global leader, an award-winning marketeer, and a behavioral scientist. Nuala has nearly 3 decades of strategic, commercial, and governance experience in asset management, investment banking, and consulting. All her strategic solutions are informed by decision science & behavioral frameworks. Nuala is also the Non-Executive Director of GAABS, the Vice-Chair of UN Women, and she has been the Chief Marketing Officer, Standard Life Aberdeen. In short, she’s a remarkable person whose insights are worth paying attention to as both a practitioner and a researcher. We spoke with Nuala recently about some investigations she completed on two topics. The first was to understand the impact that fake news has on our ‘remembering’ self. What she discovered is that our memories don’t discriminate between true or false information – we tend to remember it all roughly the same way,

Chaning Jang is the CSO of the Busara Center for Behavioral Economics and has helped lead the organization since 2013. He is responsible for strategy, and a portfolio of projects, primarily focused on research. Prior to joining Busara, Chaning worked as an English teacher in the Czech Republic and an equities trader in Los Angeles. Chaning completed a Postdoc at Princeton University in Psychology and Public Affairs, holds a PhD in Economics from the University of Hawai'i with specialization in Behavioral Economics and Development, and a bachelor's in Managerial Economics from the University of California, Davis.  He is also a CFA level II holder. We spoke to Chaning one night (for him) from his office in Nairobi, Kenya and we focused our discussion on context and how so much of psychological research has been focused in WEIRD countries (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic). Because of this focus and how behavior can be linked to cultural and social norms, countries that are not WEIRD are o

Jonah Berger is a marketing professor in the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and the internationally best-selling author Contagious and Invisible Influence. He consults with some of the largest corporations in the world and derives great insights from his interactions with business leaders wrestling with strategic issues. In this episode, we caught up with Jonah to discuss his most recent book called The Catalyst. His book takes a counter-intuitive view on persuasion by focusing on reducing barriers to change rather than learning just the right lines, information, or coercive measures to use. Jonah advocates for first understanding why people are doing what they’re doing before we try to get them to do something else. He shared his REDUCE model with us - Reactance, Endowment, Distance, Uncertainty, and Corroborating Evidence – and we dove into Reactance as a major component of how we resist change. The harder you push on someone to change, the more likely they are to push back. It’s natural f

Recently, NPR’s Planet Money penned an article about how much our time is worth based on some research that was sponsored by the rideshare company Lyft. According to the article, Lyft economists tried to determine how much people were willing to pay to save some time. After crunching data from nine different cities, Lyft estimated the average value of time is $19.00 per hour. In this episode, Kurt and Tim discussed Ashley Whillan’s new book, “Time Smart: How to Reclaim Your Time and Live a Happier Life,” some of the fundamental errors humans experience with time such as temporal discounting, loads of stats you’ll probably never need. We discover that better time management leads to greater happiness and combining habits and mindset is critical to wellbeing.  By the way, the US Department of Transportation’s official value of people’s time is $14.00 per hour. Go figure. © 2020 Behavioral Grooves     Links Planet Money (NPR): What Is Your Time Worth?: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/12/08/943812834/what

Have you ever been caught in an avalanche or spoken to someone who survived? In this episode, you’ll hear what living through an avalanche is really like. Audun Hetland (a psychologist) and Andrea Mannberg (an economist) are researchers at the White Heat Project in Tromsø, Norway. The project is a collaboration between The Arctic University of Norway, Montana State University, and Umeå University, in Sweden. Their international team also includes researchers in geography, snow science, and political science. They are focused on the effects of positional preferences and bounded rationality on risk-taking behavior, and more specifically, skiing in avalanche terrain. As project leader, Andrea spoke about how this interdisciplinary team is helping backcountry skiers do a better job of managing their risk in avalanche terrain. To do so, they are studying decision-making under uncertainty and the curious way cold and hot states affect our choices. Their work has clear implications for corporate leaders who make dec

Joel Weinberger is a Professor of Psychology at the Derner Institute at Adelphi University with Postdoctoral training in motivation at Harvard University. He is a Fellow of the Association for Psychological Science and of the American Psychological Association. His research has focused on unconscious processes and worked closely during his post-doc with motivation guru David McClelland. Joel is the founder of the consulting firm Implicit Strategies, where he helps political campaigns, non-profits, and businesses discover what consumers unconsciously think and feel about their candidate, product, or brand. In addition to roughly 100 peer-reviewed articles, his political and business commentaries have appeared in various outlets, including The Huffington Post, Anderson Cooper, and Good Morning America. In addition to writing, teaching, and consulting, Joel is a practicing clinical psychologist. We are here to talk with him about his seminal book, The Unconscious, that we came to because of a generous recommenda

If you’re like the rest of us, your new year’s resolutions don’t last beyond St. Valentine’s Day. That’s okay – it’s normal. The trouble is it’s not what you want. If you WANT success with your resolutions – to accomplish your goals – then listen to this podcast. We’ve broken down the best behavioral science advice into 4 easy-to-follow tips that will help you achieve what it is you’re passionately committed to at the start of the year. We’ve incorporated research from some of the best work in the field is combined with the real-life experiences of our hosts, Kurt Nelson, PhD, and Tim Houlihan. Enjoy and please join us in saying “So long!” to 2020 with our last episode of the year. If you like our work, please give us a super quick rating or take a luxurious minute while you’re waiting for the oven to heat up for your holiday bake and give us a short review. Thank you and we look forward to a better year ahead. © 2020 Behavioral Grooves  

Max Bazerman is the Jesse Isidor Strauss Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School and is the author of “Better, Not Perfect.” It is the latest in a string of 21 books Max has authored and stands on the platform of hundreds of peer-reviewed papers on decision-making, negotiations, and ethics. Max began by discussing the Myth of the Fixed Pie problem, which is quite common in negotiations. The Myth of the Fixed Pie indicates that we tend to rely on the way a problem is initially framed rather than thinking beyond it. We also talked about the importance of using our time wisely by being conscious of the things and experiences we focus on. Max’s worldview seems to be stitched together with the thread of human kindness. We found him, and our conversation with him, to be incredibly inspiring. Even though we caught up with Max early in the Fall, we felt so much joy and optimism in our conversation, that we decided to conclude 2020 with Max’s take on how much better humanity – not just everyone

This is THE episode to listen to if you have missed the last 90 episodes. We can all agree that 2020 has been one hell of a year. Many people have been severely impacted by the pandemic, by financial uncertainty, with civil unrest, and the general malaise that the year seemed to have. Many are excited to say, “Good riddance!” The same goes for us, but Kurt and Tim have also used 2020 to surpass several milestones that we’d like to share with you. #1 Best Behavioral Science Podcast as voted by listeners of Habit Weekly (which was very, very cool – thank you to everyone who voted for us – we are humbled!) Global Top 20 Behavioral Science Podcast by Chartable 90 episodes this year (started with Rory at 107, will end with New Year’s Resolutions at 197) 72 unique guests 120 countries download Behavioral Grooves 3rd year in a row of fantastic growth (110% growth this year over last year) 30 episodes dedicated to putting a behavioral science lens on the coronavirus pandemic This episode is a rear-view mirror glance

Pretty much everyone around the world agrees that 2020 was a challenging year and we’re glad it’s all but over. However, 2020 was a year we upped the number of guests (to 90), upped our reading habits (20+ books for the show), and had more authors as guests than in any previous year. In short, Kurt and Tim read a lot of new books. And because we read bunches of them, we’re here to save you time by offering you our view of the top 10 books – 5 from Kurt and 5 from Tim – on behavioral science from 2020. We hope you enjoy them as much as we did – and as always, let us know what you think! For quick reference, here’s our list with links for your enjoyment. And here’s to happy reading in 2021! Top Book List from Kurt “Behave,” by Robert Sapolsky: https://amzn.to/3p5MJWF “Good Habits, Bad Habits,” by Wendy Wood: https://amzn.to/3p6v1lK “Scarcity,” by Eldar Shafir and Sendhil Mullainathan: https://amzn.to/3nsMS62 “Think Like a Rocket Scientist,” Ozan Varol: https://amzn.to/34n8OI7 “Before You Know It,” by Joh

Are the new COVID-19 vaccines are safe? It will probably take time to know for sure; however, this week Kurt and Tim discuss the behavioral aspects of the transition. Kurt was engaged by an article in Bloomberg called “Vaccines May Have Social Side Effects,” by Tyler Cowen, a professor of economics at George Mason University. Professor Cowen raised the idea that the mere presence of vaccines may give people an unwarranted boost in confidence and lead to less mask-wearing and social distancing. In this 8-and-a-half-minute grooving session, we discuss some of the behavioral aspects of the transition. © 2020 Behavioral Grooves    Links “Vaccines May Have social Side Effects”: https://www.startribune.com/vaccines-may-have-social-side-effects/573096121/?refresh=true How a Covid-19 Vaccine Could End Up Helping the Virus Spread: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-11/if-we-re-not-careful-a-vaccine-might-help-covid-19-spread  

Amy Bucher, PhD is the Vice President of Behavior Change Design at Mad*Pow and the author of “Engaged” a new book on how to apply behavioral science to the design and development of products. At Mad*Pow, she designs motivating interventions to help people live healthier and happier lives and, in her spare time, knocks 150 books off her reading list every year. (OMG!) Amy was recently recognized as one of 10 behavioral scientists you should know in Forbes magazine. While we did spend a bit of time on the article and her work at Mad*Pow, most of our conversation focused on the book. We talked about motivation and the incredible power that idiosyncratic messaging can have on customers when used properly by marketing and sales. We also discussed participatory design, trust, and how important it is for product developers and marketers to demonstrate trust. She also offered her thoughts on how designers need to do a better job of integrating behavioral science into their products. Some are doing it, but there are l

Ryan McShane is the President and CEO of HR Evolution, a consultancy that designs systems that support employee alignment to organizational purpose through HR best practices, organizational development initiatives, and professional development solutions. We discussed a variety of HR related topics including psychological safety, emotional intelligence, and what can be done when it comes to improving the mindset of leaders. Ryan stressed that WIIFM (what’s in it for me) is central to the impetus to change at all levels of the organization. Plus, he offered a particularly cool insight: Change comes about when the pain of staying the same is higher than doing something different. We also discussed how the social contract between the employer and the employee has changed dramatically. And we got to hear Ryan’s rationale for being so optimistic about a future where employers need to put forth extra effort to attract and retain the best and brightest workers. It got us thinking: could the growing gig economy actual

Cornelia Walther has spent most of her professional career with the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) and the World Food Program (WFP). She was the head of communications in large-scale emergencies in Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and the Caribbean. She earned her PhD in Law and is a certified yoga instructor and her current work is a remarkable amalgam of her studies and her life’s journey. In recent years, she developed POZE as a way of exploring the world to help uncover deeper levels of happiness. (POZE is an opening spiral that can stand for, among a few things, to Pause for a moment, Observe what’s going on around you, Zoom in on yourself, and Experience what is going on in the world.) These are wise and weighty thoughts and we thoroughly enjoyed our conversation with her. We also discussed how we are all interconnected – that your world and my world may be very different, yet we share connections if we only give ourselves the chance to experience them. The hope is that we recognize this connecte