Service Design Show

This might be the most profound conversation I've recorded this year... What if I told you that the puzzle of how to measure and quantify the value of design has already been solved? I know, it sounds too good to be true, right? But hear me out. We all struggle to express the value of design in metrics that businesses understand. The result? We often cut ourselves short because we can't present the impact of our work in a neat spreadsheet. It's frustrating, especially when we see decisions being made that make no sense to us based on "our data". There are many reasons why it's hard to quantify the return on investment of (service) design. We're creating value on a systemic level. We're doing it in co-creation, so attribution is a nightmare. The effects of our work sometimes take a long time to materialize. And the list goes on. So, is all hope lost? Do we throw our hands up in the air? Of course not. Recently, while researching better alternatives to hierarchical goal structures (which are inherently

Let's start with an "easy" question today... Is design a force for good, or just another cog in the capitalist machine? I know many design professionals are grappling with this question. We see design's potential to have a positive impact but often find ourselves frustrated by its misuse as a tool for profit at any cost. The overflowing landfills, the disposable products... These are reminders of design's unintended consequences. And while we yearn to challenge the status quo, to advocate for sustainable and ethical solutions, we often face resistance from those prioritizing short-term gains. Yeah, it's a delicate balance. So how can we raise our voices as activists without jeopardizing our livelihoods? How do we ensure that our work benefits not only our (internal) clients but also society and the planet? Our guest, ​Jennifer Rittner​, has dedicated her career to exploring these questions. In the conversation, we delve into the complex relationship between design, ethics, and cultu

Ever feel like the weight of the world on your shoulders as a service design professional... That you're constantly juggling your "actual" work with the complexities of organizational processes and structures? Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Our DesignOps friends are here to lighten that load. They enable us to focus on what we do best - design – by handling the operational intricacies that so often slow us down, and drain our energy. I've heard many firsthand stories of how transformative a DesignOps partner can be. But to fully unlock the potential of this partnership, we need to understand what's happening in the ever-evolving DesignOps world. That's why I'm very excited to have Meredith Black join us on the Show. Having contributed to building DesignOps teams at major companies like The New York Times, Pinterest, and Figma, and as co-founder of the largest online DesignOps community, Meredith is one of the most influential and well-informed peo

Sure, AI is pretty cool, but have you heard of something called Retrieval-Augmented-Generation (RAG)... We don't often spotlight specific tech on the Show, but RAG? I firmly believe that RAG has the potential to shake up service design in a big way. Imagine having a super-powered teammate on every project. This teammate has the ability to recall every meeting, every workshop, and every sticky note, not just yours but your entire team's, even from years ago. Not just yours but your whole team's. Ask them a question, and a few seconds later, they've got the answer. It's like being able to have a conversation with your entire project history. Just think about the impact of this for a moment. Now, we all know about those fancy Large Language Models (LLMs) like ChatGPT. Amazing, right? But they're not trained on your data. Ask them about your project, and you'll get... well, something made up. But what if you could combine the conversational magic of LLMs with the deep knowledge of you

How can we leave the world in a better place than we inherited it... And what's design's role in all of this? In this episode, we tackle these big questions with Steve Baty. Steve is an author, former political candidate, the current CEO of the Australian Design Council, and co-founder of the renowned Meld Studios. He joins us to confront the undeniable breakdown of our existing systems. Yes, as we've discussed in previous episodes, redesigning these systems is daunting, but Steve believes a turnaround is possible – and urgent. We explore how today's design decisions shape tomorrow's world, balancing profit with doing good for our planet. And I ask Steve the burning question: How can we know we're on the right track when our work's impact won't be felt for generations? But don't worry, I can assure you this isn't just about lofty ideals. We also discuss practical steps we all can take right now to make a difference. It's a good reminder that every monumental shi

Ever felt trapped in a service you couldn't escape... Trying to end a subscription only to face a frustrating maze of hurdles? Let's face it, service endings are often the worst experience ever. The good news is that it doesn't have to be this way. In fact, well-designed endings can be a secret weapon for your business. Think about it – when customers inevitably move on, what's the final impression they take with them? Sadly, most companies neglect or wilfully ignore this crucial stage of the customer lifecycle. They hide the cancel button, throw obstacles in your path, and make leaving feel like a punishment. It's a missed opportunity because, historically, businesses have focused all their energy on acquiring new customers rather than on gracefully saying goodbye. But what if we flipped the script? What if endings felt like graduations, where we celebrate customers moving on to new adventures? Could those who leave become our biggest fans? This isn't just a pipe dream. Jo

Let's crack the code of proving design's impact on the bottom line... For this, we first have to go back to 2012. That year, a groundbreaking discovery was made at CERN. The existence of the Higgs Boson, a particle that had eluded scientists for over 40 years, was finally proven. You know what? I feel that this elusive quest is very similar to our own pursuit in the world of service design: proving the undeniable business value of design. We see its impact all around us, but providing it with hard evidence remains a struggle. Our guest this week, Ryan Rumsey, may hold the key that gets us closer to unlocking this mystery. One reason the Higgs Boson took so long to find was that the researchers were unsure where to look. As former Apple executive, author of "Business Thinking for Designers," and founder of the Chief Design Officer School, Ryan proposes that we, just as the researchers at CERN, may have been looking in the wrong place all along. Many companies, he argues, don't actua

Good Services... A book that has quickly become a classic in our field. If you haven't read it yet, it's a must. It outlines the 10 principles of good services, which is pretty fundamental stuff. But even before writing it, Lou Downe was already an icon, creating impact as the Director of Design at the Government Digital Service in the UK. So when I heard through the grapevine that there was a sequel in the making, I just had to invite Lou back to the show. Interestingly enough, our conversation started with a question: Why, even after all these years, are we still trying to justify the value we bring to the table? There's nothing wrong with articulating our value, of course. But how can we make it a two-way street, rather than all the burden falling on us, the design community? These days, Lou runs the School of Good Design, where they help professionals tackle this very challenge. So in this episode, we get to tap into a wealth of practical advice based on their experience. But we didn't s

What are the materials of service design... A seemingly simple question, but one that I believe has the potential to reshape our understanding of service design. Historically, design has always been about shaping and manipulating materials to give form to things around us. It's only in recent years, with the popularization of design thinking, that design has drifted away from its roots and heritage of a craft. The focus shifted on -sometimes mindlessly- following a flawed double diamond process. Even though people over the recent years have tried to raise the question of what the materials of service design are, the conversation never really caught on. Something tells me that's about to change with the release of the book "The Materials of Service Design." (links below) This book, in my opinion, marks a turning point in the history of our field. Yes, I absolutely feel it's that important, and no, I'm not getting any commissions on the book sales. It offers a fresh, materials-

What does it take to become a great design leader... Regardless of whether or not it's in your official job title, you're already leading to some degree. You are leading because your work is to deliver change. Change because we want to break free from outdated mental models that can't solve today's challenges. But what kind of leadership is needed to transform our organizations from the dehumanizing machines they are today into adaptable living beings? Returning guest Marzia Arico has some valuable perspectives on this. With a PhD in Organizational Studies and experience leading complex projects at LiveWork, she has many juicy insights to share with us. In this episode, we explore the emergence of a new, more empathetic leadership style that's quite different from the traditional notion of leadership. We discuss how to present ourselves confidently in our work, even when imposter syndrome is lurking around the corner. And we also delve into whether we should be explicit about the change

Why is it that we rarely question the systems that govern our day-to-day lives? Imagine building a rocket ship while still believing the sun revolves around the earth. Even though this sounds ridiculous today, it's not that long ago that this was the accepted notion. When Galileo first made the claim that it was actually the other way around, he even got jail time. Yeah, people don't really like it when their fundamental beliefs are put up for scrutiny. Our history is full of "truths" we later debunked. Okay, so what does this have to do with service design What if you're currently designing services that are based on flawed beliefs? There's certainly reason to think so. So, in this week's episode, we explore what these beliefs could be. For that, I have invited ​Fang-Jui Chang​ from the Dark Matter Labs to join us at the Show. In the conversation we dive into the hidden systems we take for granted, like ownership, currency, and even government. Fair warning: This episode

My daughter dared me to 15 meters free-fall... I was on a climbing track with her, and this was one of the "attractions." Of course, she had taken the plunge without shedding a sweat. So, there I was standing on the edge, ready to take the jump, while everything in my body was screaming NO. I hesitated, terrified... but backing out was not an option. Especially not when a 10-year old girl is cheering dad on from the ground. Sometimes, you just have to leap into the unknown and trust that things will turn out alright. Our guest this week, Lilli Graf, also took a massive leap. She left a safe job at a respected design agency to go independent and start her own business. Why? Because she knew 'less bad' isn't good enough anymore when it comes to our climate crisis. Her journey in the last few years has thrown up many challenges. So, I wanted to know what kept her going, what she had learned so far, and what she would have done differently, looking back. Of course, we also had to talk a

Recently, I turned 43... I don't really celebrate my birthdays anymore. Don't worry; I have an amazing wife who makes sure there's always cake. But I do always try to take a moment and reflect on my past year because “The only time you should ever look back, is to see how far you've come.” Well, today, it's not just about my journey; it's about ours. We've hit a massive Service Design Show milestone: 200 episodes! That's a new interview every two weeks for over 8 years. And by now, we've clocked in over 500.000 listens to our conversations. Truly mind-boggling. Especially when you consider how niche our field is (still). It tells me what I do matters to people like you. Honestly, if I had to, I'd still do this show just for my own learning... but knowing you're out there makes it so much better. To celebrate, I'm flipping the script. For this episode, it's me answering YOUR questions. Some are about service design, some get a bit personal... Here's a

Is design facing a crisis? You don't have to spend much time on LinkedIn to read about the recent layoffs, studio closures, and debates about our value. Whether or not you call it a crisis, it's hard to deny that things have been shaken up recently. But instead of focusing on surface level symptoms, let's dive deeper. In this episode, we sit down with Yvonne Tran, design director at the New York Times, to explore the underlying forces that shape design. Where are we coming from, and what could be its next destination. Why is design in its current state? Is this a backlash against the widespread understanding of "design thinking"? If everyone's a designer, what's the unique value a professional brings? Despite the challenges, Yvonne still sees a bright future for design. As our clients and colleagues evolve and mature, so must we. In our conversation, Yvonne outlined three key areas where design can continue to provide unique value. A thought-provoking episode for anyone interes

This has to stop... I don't care what they say. Chatbots s*ck. But we, as service design professionals, have the power to make things better. Sure, ChatGPT and Google Gemini are impressive tools, but a chatbot on a company's website? Probably one of the most frustrating experiences you can have these days. This trend toward replacing humans in service delivery is a growing concern. There's nothing wrong with trying to optimize processes. It becomes a problem when it's done in a mindless way to solely cut costs at the expense of the user experience. Our guest, ​Cameron Tonkinwise​, makes a compelling case for preserving the human element in service delivery. Because removing this vital component erodes something incredibly valuable that AI (or any other tech) can't and will never be able to replicate. As you can imagine, simply pointing out the problem isn't enough. So, in our conversation, we explore how to make a strong case for human-driven services... even to the most skeptical sta

Imagine that you had the power to look into the future... That you could escape from the short-term focus and envision a world years or even decades away. And on top of this, you'd be able to turn this vision into something real, a roadmap to guide your decisions today. Wouldn't that change everything? Now, this episode won't give you a crystal ball, but it might be the next best thing. We all know that the challenges we face today require different ways of thinking in order to solve them. If we continue on the trajectory we're currently on, our future isn't looking very bright, to say the least. In order to create a different, better future, we have to first imagine it. But with our world changing so fast, how can we even predict tomorrow, let alone years from now? Aren't we just better off focussing on the here and now? Not according to our guest, Ali Draudt. Ali teaches us that predicting the future is a hidden superpower of designers. Lucky for us, Ali is an expert – author of &qu

Here is something that makes many service design professionals cringe... The question to quantify the impact design has on the company goals. You'll see that finding the answer to this question is actually surprisingly easier (and more fun) than you might think. Here's a business mantra you might have heard before: If it's not being measured, it's not important. Numbers rule. That's that cold, hard reality of how companies operate. Now, as a design community, we've always struggled to quantify the value we bring to tangible business outcomes. Sure, there are valid reasons – we often work on systemic challenges where it's hard to make a water-tight correlation between our efforts and the specific impact they have on the goals. There are just many factors at play that have an influence, and isolating our contribution is hard or, rather, impossible. So, we often get hung up on this attribution question as we feel we can't "prove" how much we've contributed. Even i

What's the most important tool in your service design toolbox? No, it's not a fancy piece of software or a groundbreaking methodology. The most important tool is you. A bit cheesy? Perhaps. True? Absolutely! Let me explain. You're the enabler for all actions leading to positive change. It's easy to overlook the importance of keeping this tool—yourself—in top shape. And you can only deliver your best work when you're healthy and happy. If you're drained by unfulfilling work or feel your talent is going to waste, all the other tools in your kit won't matter. So, how do we get to a place where we do work that gives us joy and motivates us to get up in the morning? That's the theme of the conversation with our guest, Frances Yllana. Frances shares practical ways to align our work with our purpose. And we discuss the importance of prioritizing conscious career development, even in busy times. As you'll hear, the great thing is we can apply many tools and methods from

Design is at risk of being misused and exploited... Wow, I had to let that sink in for a moment. It's not the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of the service design community. I generally see a bunch of optimistic and passionate professionals dedicated to making the services around us better. However, our latest guest, George Aye, delivers an important wake-up call. George argues that when we solely focus on the feasibility aspect of our work, we fall into the trap of contributing to challenges that aren't aligned with our values. It's not enough to merely ask whether we can do something. As a practice, we must take responsibility and hold each other more accountable for the impact we have on the people that we serve. The key question, according to George, is whether we should contribute to a particular challenge. No challenge is too small for thorough scrutiny. We need to overcome the idea that we should get involved in every project and demand higher ethical standards from ourse

Could it be that we're missing the ultimate metric of success? If I asked you about the metrics driving your organization, I bet revenue, costs, and profit would top the list. Sure, staying in business means earning money, and for most organizations, growing profit has been the default mode of operation. But here's the catch: more money shouldn't, and frankly can't, be the end goal. We all feel the consequences of that mindset today. So, if profit isn't the ultimate metric of success, what could be the alternative? Our guest, Alan Moore, has an inspiring take on this. According to Alan, the metric to optimize our business for is beauty. Yes, you read that right, beauty. Now, I know this will sound a bit unconventional for some organizations, but just because beauty isn't a recognized metric doesn't mean it lacks importance. Just imagine a world where we actually would optimize for beauty instead of profit. Intriguing, right? So, is this just wishful thinking? Surely not! In our con