2bobs - With David C. Baker And Blair Enns

David does all the heavy lifting for Blair in his recent article so they can finally discuss the overlap between Agile as a management method and pricing policy.   LINKS “Pros and Cons of Agile…in the Real World” by David C. Baker 2Bobs episode 78: “Phase Your Client Engagements” Manifesto for Agile Software Development “Agile is Dead (Long Live Agility)” by Dave Thomas   

Blair wants firms to get paid to write their proposals, which is the first of his four phases of client engagement.   LINKS “Different Pricing Models” - 2Bobs episode 61 “A Beginner’s Guide to Negotiating” - 2Bobs episode 53 “Alternative Forms of Reassurance” - 2Bobs episode 46 Transcript

David keeps encountering clients who don’t appreciate how their account people actually contribute to their overall business, and Blair totally identifies with the traits that David describes.   2Bobs episode 44: “The Best Ways to Disrespect Account People”   WHAT ACCOUNT PEOPLE DO, IN BROAD STROKES: Pull necessary data from the client, even when it’s tough to get their cooperation. Sell recommendations back to them that are in their best interest. Lead the client. (Interesting fact: “strategy” is latin for “general” in army who leads.) Protect margins. Grow the account. Send the client to hell...and help them enjoy the trip (e.g., change orders). Read social signals and intervene before catastrophe strikes. Manage an account review, disputes, mistakes, etc. Follow client contacts to their next job. Keep ear to the ground as agency innovates client offerings.   PERSONALITY: Goal is authority and prestige. Judges others by their ability to verbalize and be flexible. Overuses enthusiasm, selling ability, an

Blair and David share their frustrations around some contracts that they have been asked to sign, making it clear why they are not attorneys.   This episode does not contain legal advice. Get a lawyer for that: Sharon Toerek Candice Kersh Jeffrey Dermer Michael Lasky

David keeps seeing principals who get someone else to run their firm, which is not a good idea. Then he gets Blair's thoughts on why he thinks it happens.   Links David C. Baker Seminar Win Without Pitching Workshops with Blair Enns Built to Sell: Creating a Business That Can Thrive Without You by John Warrillow Entrepreneurial Operating System Traction Library The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success by William Thorndike

David and Blair lay out some of the reasons why they think, in most cases, agencies pursuing recurring revenue models are making a mistake.   Links “Why Monthly Recurring Revenue (MRR) Arrangements May Not Be Ideal” by David C. Baker The End of Average: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness by Todd Rose Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up: The Japanese Art of Decluttering and Organizing by Marie Kondō “Unbundling the Corporation” by John Hagel III and Marc Singer for Harvard Business Review

David brings up one of Blair's favorite topics: how they keep themselves and their clients from being trapped by requests for proposal.   LINKS 2Bobs episode 70, “The Only New Business Indicator That Matters”

  Blair and David share what they have learned as they have recorded 2Bobs podcast episodes for almost 4 years - what has worked well, what has been challenging, and what they would recommend to those agency principals who might be considering their own podcast.   LINKS The Soul of Enterprise Episode 15: “The Best Learning Method Ever Devised: After Action Reviews” with Ron Baker and Ed Kless Build a Better Agency with Drew McClellan EconTalk with Russell Roberts Marcus dePaula, podcast producer and consultant   BLAIR'S PODCASTING SETUP Telefunken M82 dynamic XLR microphone Audient iD4 audio interface Rolls MS111 Mic Mute Senal SMH-1000 Professional Field and Studio Monitor Headphones Apple QuickTime Player app for AIFF audio recording using the Maximum quality setting Skype for the conversation (audio only)   DAVID'S PODCASTING SETUP Sennheiser HMDC 27 Professional Broadcast Headset with custom extension cable (so David can roam as he records) Audient iD4 audio interface Rolls MS111 Mic Mute Rogue Amoeba

Blair and David consider the hundreds of firms they have each worked with over the years to identify the characteristics of highest performing firms and what they have seen agency principals do to succeed.

Blair shares some new data (at the time he and David recorded this discussion in January of 2016) that points to the one variable that can predict the likelihood of a prospect hiring your firm.

David wants to know if Blair thinks it's harder for creative firms to find great prospective clients, or great employees, as they unpack how to attract the right candidates using a “lead generation” plan.   Ideas for “Lead Generation” of candidates: Social media presence Guest teach a single class at a known school that typically turns out a best student every semester Offer your facility as a meeting place for trade/association meetings Put a rotating art gallery with an open house when the display rotates Quarterly webinar for prospective employees on topics they would be fascinated with, including guests (or even a podcast) Skill-building workshops open to the community, bringing in expert teachers Build a model that depends on a steady rotation of contractors to test them out Keep a great relationship w/ employees who leave you—they are frequently your best people when they return after an interim education somewhere else

Blair is in the spotlight discussing some bad practices driven by assumptions he's seen his clients make over the past couple decades, a few of which are new to David. 10. Branding and Full Service Advertising are Specializations 9. The More You Have to Sell the More Likely a Sale 8. An Increase in Meetings Leads to an Increase in Sales 7. The Written Proposal is a Necessary Step in the Sales Process 6. Build Personal Relationships to Build Sales 5. Presentation Skills Training Leads to Improved Business Development Success 4. Chemistry Wins New Business 3. Selling is Persuading 2. It’s Everyone’s Job to Sell 1. You Have to Pitch (for Free) to Win a Creative Assignment   LINKS Original article by Blair Enns, “Top Ten New Business Development Myths” The Challenger Sale by Neil Rackham Contagious Culture: Show Up, Set the Tone, and Intentionally Create an Organization that Thrives by Anese Cavanaugh

Blair interviews David about six employee archetypes which can end up being big hiring mistakes for creative firms.

Blair has another podcast therapy session about “good clients vs. bad clients,” as David tries to help him see procurement people as actual human beings who sometimes are just overwhelmed.

Blair has an aversion to the topic of personal branding, so David offers examples of why, when, and how the personal brands he’s seen principals develop can be either helpful or harmful for their firms.   LINKS “Launch Your Career as a Podcast Guest” by David C. Baker Episode 1 of Dexter Guff is Smarter Than You: “You Don’t Exist Without a Personal Brand” The Visible Expert® by Hinge Marketing “Personal Branding for Creative Professionals” course by Dorie Clark  

Blair and David explore the differences they see between consultants and agencies in an effort to understand how the landscape is changing and what creative firms can do to beat consultants at their own game.   Links The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth by David C. Baker Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life by Rory Sutherland

David admits to making a mistake, as Blair finishes his discussion from a couple episodes back on the eighth pricing model, which he claims “is the highest expression of entrepreneurship there is.”   Links 2Bobs episode 61 - “Different Pricing Models” Prohibition Gin and Toolbox Design Cup & Leaf “Unbundling the Corporation” by John Hagel III and Marc Singer for the Harvard Business Review The Futur and Chris Do of Blind™ Conscious Minds   

David and Blair address the obsession that many principals have with the size of firms, and the advantages of being either big or small.

Blair is struck by how creative businesses have trouble applying their creativity to their revenue models, so he and David discuss some of the best ways firms can get paid.   LINKS Subscribed: Why the Subscription Model Will Be Your Company's Future - and What to Do About It by Tien Tzuo The Membership Economy: Find Your Super Users, Master the Forever Transaction, and Build Recurring Revenue by Robbie Kellman Baxter The Automatic Customer: Creating a Subscription Business in Any Industry by John Warrillow 2Bobs Episode 31: “Mastering the Value Conversation” 2Bobs Episode 25: “Pricing Creativity” Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns   

David and Blair each share their own perspectives on how chasing comfort has kept them and their clients making the right decisions in both management and sales situations.   LINKS 2Bobs Episode 2: Say What You Think The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation by Matthew Dixon