Politics With Michelle Grattan

At next week’s UN General Assembly, Malcolm Turnbull will be among many leaders responding to the large movements of refugees and migrants across the world. Peter Jennings, executive director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, tells Michelle Grattan that the purpose of Barack Obama’s meeting is to get other countries to accept more refugees through legal channels. “I don’t think he’s going to make much headway because at the moment the Europeans are closing their doors rather than opening them. But I wouldn’t be surprised if we see significant pledges of new aid and Australia will probably be doing the same thing at that meeting,” he says. While Turnbull is in the US, he will take part in a dialogue on cyber security. Jennings, who is head of one of the think tanks sponsoring the talks, says the idea is to see if they can find ways to more effectively link business into a discussion about cyber security, including on issues like counter-radicalisation. “I think what the hope is is that we’ll see cl

Earlier this year, Australian writer Don Watson visited the United States, observing the race for president. Rather than examine the “rust belt” or “down-at-heel” cities, Watson chose America’s heartland. “I found in Wisconsin many of the underlying themes of this election. And that sort of Gothic quality of the United States where everything has a very deep and often dark story behind it.” Watson tells Michelle Grattan that what is happening in the United States now has “something to do with the religion of neoliberalism and the really nasty tactics of the Republican Party since Reagan”. “We ought to be careful I think that we don’t go the same way. Certainly inequality is increasing here and we have seen the revival of Hansonism and we know that Australia is prone to bouts of xenophobia and even of racism,” he says. Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is Ameri

In the first sitting of the new parliament, conservatives within the government have muscled a proposed amendment to the Racial Discrimination Act onto the agenda. Senator Eric Abetz, a strong advocate for change, tells Michelle Grattan that he doubts it will be dealt with this year. “It will be introduced and then I think it would make sense for it to go through the normal processes. It may well go to a Senate committee, things of that nature. So how it transpires - no timetable has been set but we did want to put it up there on the agenda so it could be dealt with in due course,” he says. “We would hope that in the period of a three-year parliament, we can chew gum and walk at the same time and that there will be time set aside for what is a very minimalist amendment to the Racial Discrimination Act to remove the words offend and insult.” Abetz, a former leader of the government in the upper house and a minister in the Abbott government, remains resentful of being banished by Turnbull to the backbench and s

Fred Smith is no ordinary Australian diplomat. In postings served in the Uruzgan Province of Afghanistan, he built relationships with tribal leaders while continuing his side-career as a folk musician. Smith, who has written about his experiences in a book, The Dust of Uruzgan, tells Michelle Grattan for the first three or four months he stashed his guitar under the bed. “You know, I wanted to be taken seriously as a political officer and not seen as a folk singer. But eventually as I became more comfortable on the base, I got the guitar out and started writing songs and put together bands … and of course there wasn’t much going on on a Saturday night in Tarin Kowt so a lot of people would come,” he says. “Then they would hear me singing stories about things that had happened a couple of weeks beforehand and it resonated, you know. And that’s sort of in the very finite emotional and intellectual information economy of that base. It opened up doors and built a sense of community.”

Since retiring from politics in 2012, former Greens leader Bob Brown has continued to offer sharp perspectives on issues of national debate. After giving the closing address at the Canberra Writers' Festival at the weekend, Brown tells Michelle Grattan that Malcolm Turnbull should have “stood up to the right wing” of his party at the end of 2015. “We now have a reactionary and conservative government. I don’t think that’s where Malcolm Turnbull wants to be. I think he would prefer to be a Bob Menzies, and his time’s running out. “He either will stand up to that power base of right-wing reactionaries and conservatives, or he’ll be another prime minister who failed to reach their promise, and Australia deserves a very progressive and liberal-minded leader. “Turnbull’s got it in him, but one wonders if he’s had the life experience to be able to say: ‘Well, I’m not going to be dictated to’. It’s pretty late in the piece. ‘I’m not going to be dictated by these right wingers. I will stand up to them and if I lose o

Incoming Victorian senator Derryn Hinch has the potential to be an ally or an enemy to the government’s agenda. Describing his political philosophy, Hinch says he isn’t in the Senate “just to be opposition”. “If I was in America I’d be a Democrat. I’m conservative on some issues. Very conservative. And that’s over law and order issues and I’ve campaigned on those over the years. If I’m a socialist about anything it’s about medicine and hospitals. … Socially I’m fairly lower case liberal,” he says. In the early days of the new parliament, Hinch plans to try to lift the restrictions on press in the Senate, where current rules prevent Senators from being photographed unless they are speaking on their feet. “I just think this is wrong, we should streamline it, bring it up-to-date. This is a public house. …So those restrictions should be lifted. Standing order should be changed,” he says. Music credit: “Definition” by Ketsa, Free Music Archive Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journa

This week, political reporter Karen Middleton is releasing a book about the life and career of Labor frontbencher Anthony Albanese. At its heart is a deeply personal story of Albanese’s absent father. As a boy, Albanese believed his father had died in a car accident shortly after his parent’s marriage. But at the age of 14 his mother told him the truth. Middleton tells Michelle Grattan she came to know Albanese’s story over the years “sort of by accident”. “He had told a few people but not very many and he had kept this story about his father and his personal life very tightly,” she says. Music credit: “Roll On” by Ketsa, Free Music Archive

When parliament returns later this month, Labor’s Anne Aly will become the first Muslim woman to take a seat in the lower house. Aly is an internationally renowned scholar on counter-terrorism and de-radicalisation. In 2014, she was the only Australian expert invited to attend Barack Obama’s summit on countering violent extremism. Aly tells Michelle Grattan she has spoken with many people who have been involved in violent organisations, including former members of the Irish Republican Army, former right-wing neo-nazis, and violent jihadists. Aly says most deradicalisation programs fail because all that they can do is remove the opportunity, the capability and perhaps change the environment. “But very rarely, if someone is highly radicalised, can outside forces actually change their world orientation or their world view. Many of them need to go through a process to arrive at disillusionment … in order to fully move away from the movement itself,” she says. On the bread-and-butter issue of the GST, she welcomes

Next week, Australians will look back at one the most significant moments in the struggle for Indigenous rights. August 23 marks the 50th anniversary of the Wave Hill walk-off when Vincent Lingiari led a group of 200 Aboriginal workers and their families off a Northern Territory pastoral station in protest against their exploitative pay and working conditions. Labor’s spokesperson for human services, Linda Burney, who at the election became the first Indigenous woman to win a seat in the lower house, tells Michelle Grattan the events of Wave Hill were incredibly important and continue to be. Burney says the actions of Lingiari and the Gurindji people at Wave Hill were “heroic” and should be “fundamental to everyone’s education in Australia through the school curriculum”. Burney also traces the modern land rights movement to the walk-off. “The Gurindji with the support of unions and many others - non-Aboriginal people - came to the south and presented their case about living conditions, about rights to country

The royal commission into the Northern Territory’s youth detention and child protection systems has had a shaky start. The Four Corners program that spurred the federal government into action has also raised questions about its previous knowledge of reports of abuse at the Don Dale detention centre. Chancellor of the University of Canberra Professor Tom Calma, who is co-chair of Reconciliation Australia and a Northern Territory Aboriginal elder, tells Michelle Grattan that there was “little to no interest” by the federal government and Indigenous Affairs Minister Nigel Scullion into the numerous reports of abuse leading up to the Four Corners program. He says it was “pretty much swept under the carpet at the Northern Territory level” and that the Northern Territory government should not be co-sponsors of the royal commission. “You don’t get the opportunity to have an independent royal commission very often and to have one where one of the major defendants is going to have to be the Northern Territory governme

Tiernan Brady was the political director of the “yes” campaign during the Irish referendum on same-sex marriage. With the government pushing ahead with plans for a plebiscite on the issue, Brady is in Australia to help advise local marriage equality advocates. Brady tells Michelle Grattan one of the most important aspects of the Irish referendum was that they recognised that it should always be about “a real person”. “It shouldn’t be a set of angry debates and loud interviews where people shout at each other…what it needed to be was friendly conversations, engaging; much more about having conversations at the dinner table, on the street and in the supermarket than in Parliament or on ABC or on the radio,” he says. Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of

Labor begins its next phase in opposition with bigger numbers in the parliament and with a new level of confidence as it confronts the government. Shadow Minister for Financial Services and Superannuation Jim Chalmers tells Michelle Grattan Labor has a pretty good record of “supporting what they can” of government savings measures. “The way I like to describe it is when it comes to the budget, you agree where you can and you disagree where you must…I’m someone who puts a lot of value in trying to find as many ways as we can to repair the budget bottom line,” he says. Mentioned in this episode:The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of the world’s pre-eminant scholars reveal the recipe for authoritarian rule. From capturing a party, to controlling the military, Donald Trump is borrowing from the playbook of strongmen thoughout history. This is the story of how

By increasing their numbers within the government, the Nationals were the surprise success story of the election, with a very local campaign. Minister for Infrastructure and Transport and Victorian National Darren Chester tells Michelle Grattan the presidential style of campaigning that is becoming more prevalent in Australia doesn’t suit the Nationals. “We don’t necessarily benefit from that style of campaigning. That’s no criticism of our Coalition partners. It’s just that they tend to focus on the metropolitan seats where the leader of the day gets a lot of media coverage. Our media coverage and our profile comes through the local newspapers in small country towns, the local ABC or the local commercial television news service,” he says. Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat fro

As a veteran of the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd years, former treasurer Wayne Swan is a politician with a great deal of experience with parliamentary instability. With the outcome of the election still uncertain, Swan tells Michelle Grattan Labor should approach the next period ahead in a very positive way. “We put [forward] a comprehensive agenda for inclusive growth. What you saw at this election was the defeat of the Abbott-Turnbull agenda of trickle-down economics,” he says. Swan says Malcolm Turnbull’s authority has been “shattered” and that he will find it very hard to assert any authority in his partyroom. “His glass jaw-shattering speech after midnight on election night I think effectively ended his authority not just in his party but I think in the country.” Swan says he wants to continue to speak about issues he is passionate about from the position of a backbencher rather than from the shadow cabinet. “I want to use my time as treasurer to add to critical national debates and speak about them in a much more

The election has plunged Australia into uncertainty and placed a question mark over the country for companies looking to invest. Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry CEO James Pearson tells Michelle Grattan that businesses are disappointed there isn’t a clear result and that policies that are pro-business will now be harder to get through parliament. “The call from business now is to get on with the job of leading and running the country and making decisions for the future,” he says.

Senator Nick Xenophon is the South Australian “vote magnet” making both the Coalition and Labor nervous, as he spreads his brand at this election. His probable success promises not just more Senate seats for the nascent party but a powerful role in the new Senate for its leader. Xenophon tells Michelle Grattan he believes that while governments have a mandate to introduce legislation, the Senate has a mandate to scrutinise. “I say that in the context that there are many hundreds of thousands of Australians that vote differently between the lower house and the upper house because under our Constitution, under our system of government, the Senate is there to represent the states. “It’s also there under its proportional representation system to be a bulwark against excesses of executive power,” he says. Mentioned in this episode:The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation

Tony Abbott has been low key so far this election, spending much of his time campaigning in his own electorate, with some visits to MPs who invite him. Speaking with Michelle Grattan, he plays up being part of the team. He admits staunch Liberals have issues with the superannuation changes but says “the point I keep making to them is that we cannot avoid tough decisions”, and does not expect the policy to change after the election. On same-sex marriage he confirms that if the plebiscite was carried he would vote for the enabling legislation. By putting the question to the people “we’ve effectively said the people are sovereign on this matter rather than the parliament”. Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of the world’s pre-eminant scholars reveal the

The Greens, who already hold the seat of Melbourne, are making a big play for two nearby Labor-held seats – Batman, held by David Feeney, and Wills, where the popular Kelvin Thomson is retiring. Labor is especially worried about Batman, where Feeney’s failure to declare his A$2.3 million house added to his already embattled position. This week The Conversation spoke to Greens leader Richard Di Natale about the Greens' campaign and ambitions generally, including these two seats. Di Natale said that if there were a minority Labor government and the Greens were in a balance-of-power situation, he would still hope for an agreement, despite Labor ruling out such an alliance. He indicated the Greens would press for concessions on policy rather than seeking a ministry. The Conversation also interviewed the Greens candidate in Wills, Samantha Ratnam, and the Labor candidate Peter Khalil, as well as the Greens candidate for Batman Alex Bhathal. David Feeney declined an interview. Mentioned in this episode:Your support

The battle for the Victorian seat of Indi is shaping up as a three-way contest. Independent Cathy McGowan is trying to fend off the former member Sophie Mirabella and the Nationals' Marty Corboy. McGowan tells Michelle Grattan the election will come down to preferences. “I’m hoping that the National Party people will consider giving me their second preference and I’m hoping that Liberal Party people … certainly the ones in Wodonga – don’t see their answer in the National Party and they will consider giving me their preferences,” she says. In this special election podcast, Michelle Grattan interviews McGowan, Corboy, as well as the Greens' candidate Jenny O'Connor and Labor’s Eric Kerr. Sophie Mirabella was unwilling to be interviewed. Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The

The Labor Party has been driving a campaign bus from Cairns to Canberra. On Sunday night senator Sam Dastyari, leader of the “Bill Bus”, told supporters at a Canberra pub they had raised enough money to extend its journey through to Melbourne and would be leaving the next morning. After giving a speech to the faithful, Dastyari tells Michelle Grattan they have been getting a lot of local media in small towns and that the reception has been “quite positive”. “The irony of all this is what is old is new. And what we’re really doing is taking on board some really 1950s/1960s great Labor campaigns, great political campaigns. This is how we campaigned. And why did we campaign this way? Because people felt engaged, people felt like they were part of it. It helped tell a story,” he says. While warning Labor can’t afford to be complacent in any state or territory, Dastyari emphasises the importance of New South Wales and Queensland for Labor at this election. “In 2010, we lost a bunch of Queensland seats and in 2013,