Politics With Michelle Grattan

"The warfare of the 21st century" is going to be "fought in cyberspace before kinetic shots are fired" says leading national security expert David Irvine.  And perhaps the fight has already begun, with Australia's institutions, businesses, and citizens subject to a near constant barrage of cyber attacks. Previously chair and now a board member of the Cyber Security Cooperative Research Centre, Irvine has a deep knowledge of the cyber risks posed to Australia and Australians by both nation states and criminals.  His career has included heading both ASIS, which manages Australia's overseas spying activities, and ASIO, responsible for domestic protection. Irvine describes cybercrime as a "massive issue", and say that compared to countries like "China, Russia,[...]Iran, and North Korea" the West is lagging behind in its defensive cyber capability.  "I think almost every Western country is probably behind the game in its defences." Part of this is the  nature of cyber incursions. "One of the rules in cybercrime is